Do Local Good

Did you know that each

year, 1 in 5 Canadians
will face a mental health issue?

We know that mental illness
impacts individuals across all ages.

Education
levels, income brackets, and cultures.

We also know that mental health has
an intergenerational effect on families.

Hi folks, and welcome to Do Local Good,
a podcast created by United Way of Alberta

Capital Region and the team of volunteers
on the GenNEXT Cabinet.

We feature stories and people from
the Edmonton region to inform, inspire

and invite others to join us in building
resilient and thriving communities.

This podcast is recorded
in Edmonton, Alberta,

and we're grateful that we get to have
this conversation on Treaty Six Territory

and the Métis Homelands in the Métis
Nation of Alberta.

Before we jump in, we'll be taking
we'll be talking about a variety of mental

health topics today, including addiction
and intergenerational trauma.

A reminder that if you or a loved one
needs support during

or after listening to this episode,
or any time, you can always contact

211 for resources in your area.

Well hi everyone, I'm Natalie Steffl
and I'm Rahma Dalmar,

and today we want to dig into
the reality of mental health

and its intergenerational impact
on families and overall well-being.

And to do that,
we are joined by Pamela Spurvey.

So Pamela is an Indigenous Cree
woman from Beaver Lake Cree Nation,

and their home is in Edmonton,

and they are a mother of five
and a grandmother of five.

And they're also someone who has lived
and living experience.

They currently work for Recovery Alberta

as an Indigenous Wellness Coordinator
and has been a Financial Literacy

Facilitator
with Empower U for the last 13 years.

I just want to read a piece of Pamela's

story here that was provided when we were
preparing for today's interview.

In Pamela's own words,

I know what it feels like to struggle
without financial security

and how generational poverty
can affect a person's life.

As an adult,
I struggled with the effects of

intergenerational trauma
and mental health and substance misuse.

With the support
of my Culture and Community.

I was able to find myself again

and have been on my healing journey
for the last 17 years.

I believe with the right supports
in place, people can gain a sense of hope.

Pamela, thank you so much for joining us.

Thank you very much. Yeah. Thank you.

Let's get right into it.

Pamela,
thank you again, for being here today.

You know, your personal journey has been
shaped by both your life experiences

and the intergenerational trauma
you witness.

How does that influenced your work in
mental health and with addiction recovery?

It's had such a huge impact
in how I choose to walk beside

people in their their recovery journey
from mental health and substance misuse.

Knowing what it's like to sit

in that place of darkness
and feeling hopeless is something,

it's nice for people to kind of
have somebody to relate to that

and to know that
that you can come out on the other side

because I know for me,
when I was in that darkness,

I didn't think it was possible,

but when all the right supports
are put in place and,

some people are helping you navigate
these systems, change is possible.

And so that's something that I try to do.

And everything that I do
is just show up, for people

and that's the best thing that I can
do, is just show up as myself

with the changes I've chose to make
and share them with others.

Yeah. It's amazing.

You know, you spoken about some of the
challenges, you know, when we first met.

But reintegrating families
affected by trauma.

Can you share more about how this process
impacts mental health, especially for,

you know, the parents and the children
who are included in this conversation?

Yeah.

For me,
I, I can come from my own experience

and tell you how,
that trauma really affected

how I choose to show up for my children
or for myself

and in anything that they did and didn't
really understand that it was trauma.

That's a really big thing, too,
because, when you're living

in that state of fight, flight or freeze
or you're living in those,

difficult environments,

you don't know they're difficult
because that's all you know.

And so for me, like the abuse and,

the, you know, my mom had a mom struggling
with mental health.

And in it and substance

misuse and all of that stuff was just
I thought every family went through that.

So I didn't really realize
what the word trauma meant

because like I said, I normalized it. So.

But as I got older
and started my healing journey,

I really begin to see how
what my mom experienced

really affected how I felt about myself,
how I felt about people,

how I felt when feeling safe.

You know, living in fear all the time.

All of those things
came from the struggles

she went through and the struggles
she went through with her.

Her mom.

And so learning about that history
actually really helped me understand

that I actually did have trauma

and helped me navigate that.

People who helped me navigate
that was a lot of the supports

that I was reaching out to,
to help me understand that

those experiences
were actually actually shaped my life. So,

they can have a profound effect on you.

And, you know, even today, you know, I,
I still feel effects of that trauma

in certain situations
that happened along the way in my life

when I'm walking with my children
and the struggles they're going through,

I tried to help them navigate their life
a little different and so that they didn't

have to wait as long as I did
to try to figure things out. So.

But I see the effects,
even with my grandchildren. So,

you know,

we see in our culture like it's
it takes seven generations to change

all the trauma that we went through,
and I see that now that,

it's going to take some time for sure,

you know, and the supports that you're
able to provide in the community work for,

you know, how
large is the intergenerational aspect of,

you know, mental health and addiction?

Is it something you see so common, like

it is so common in the work that I do?

I, I was just talking about this with,
with you.

Talking about like how,

you know,
I work with people in a treatment center,

and when they're coming in
and the pain that they're struggling with

is just so intense for them.

And, and it comes it's been there

for so long, Some of them have been in
and out of treatment center seven times.

Or, they just can't grasp trying to.

I always say be a Normi, right?

Trying to live in the normal world,
can be really difficult sometimes,

When you are trying to navigate systems
that have hurt you for so long.

And so a lot of people come in
with a lot of fear

and anger and resentment
and not trusting the systems and,

I really see how that can break down
somebody

finding the supports that they need
because you put the walls up.

And so there's a lot of walls
that people have up and trying to navigate

and break down those walls
and rebuild a relationship with them

and helping them
trust the system or trust somebody,

it's going to take time and

that's the biggest thing
that I try to support people to understand

that we need time,
You can't take something

that's been there your whole life
and think it's going to change with,

you know, a 42 day treatment center,
You know, like I think about that

and it took me living in three different
treatment centers

for almost 15 months before I was capable
of living with my kids on my own.

And a lot of people
don't have that opportunity.

And I'm really thankful that I did,
because I don't think I would be able

to have the sobriety that I have today
without the long term, the long term.

Healing that I did.

I needed that long term healing in order
to get to where I'm at today.

Yeah.

And, you know, it's
such a such an important topic.

Do you see this, too?

And, you know, other communities,
whether you're marginalized or,

you know,
because it's something that experience

allows Indigenous communities, we,

you know, you coming from that community
and being a part of it.

But, you know, do you see this
intergenerational intergenerational trauma

with immigrants
and other marginalized? Yes.

And that's I think that was something
that was really eye

opening for me
as I continue to do this work.

As a frontline worker,

I started to show up on different
committees

and started advocating as the United Way
was a big part of that, United Way.

I became a Discovery Speaker with them,

and I didn't realize how much United Way
had put into all the programs I was part

of, like it was their funding dollars
that actually helped me

have the things that I accessed.

And so I was actually really grateful
to be a discovery speaker for them and,

and share with those donors
and talk to them about like,

this is what your dollars do.

And to kind of give them that,
that real story.

And when I started doing that,
I started to notice how much

we're not that different, you know, in,

in that entire generational trauma for,

you know, immigrants that are coming here
and losing their homeland

and their language and they're trying to
come in here and fit into a community that

you know, there's so many...,
what's that word?

nuances nuances that they have.

Yeah, nuance that they have to face.

And, even our financial system.

You know, trying to navigate
how things are culturally different here

and I see that, that they all come
from something too,

Like when you think of,
the black community and and like you said,

the newcomers and LGBTQ2S community, like,
they all come from that.

We all come from that
intergenerational trauma in some ways.

So how do we begin to

maybe relate better to each other
and instead of separating us all the time?

And so that's what I do.

I try to do the best at that
is trying to help us show how much

similarities
we have instead of differences.

Yeah.

And I think that that creates community
when you do that.

instead of having us,
having that separation

and such and such a positive way
to connect us all to.

Yeah.

That we build that trust and build
that sense of community.

Yeah.

And so that's one of the things
I really allow myself to do is become more

curious about other cultures
and hear their stories and, and hear what,

what is beautiful to them
about their culture and integrating it

into the things that I do
and the people I support.

You know,

I my role is specific around, you know,
an Indigenous wellness coordinator,

but my goal is to make sure that I'm
very culturally inclusive with everything

that I do to show the relatability
and I think that that's important to me.

You know, we talked a little bit about,
you know, United Way in the support

that they provide to communities, whether
through funding dollars or programing.

You know,
you've benefited, from our conversation.

Let us know.

United
Way has supported you in certain aspects,

whether it's through the Empower U program
or Boyle Street Community Services.

How do these services help
you rebuild stability in your own life,

especially during those tough
times? Oh, I can't even,

when I,

when I moved to, I had to come back
to Edmonton to be part of a program

called Edmonton Drug Treatment Court,
which is a restorative justice program.

I when I struggled with my mental health
and addiction,

I also got involved
in the criminal justice system.

And I was facing, you know,
some time in jail and I was very fortunate

to have this program in Edmonton
that I was able to be part of

where I served my time in the community
instead of a jail

or a jail cell, and it saved my life.

Like, it really saved my life

because it allowed me to get the supports
that I needed in the community.

And when I started to try to navigate,

in this program, part of

it was trying to get my kids back
and my kids were in care.

And when my kids were returned to me,
they were 13, 11, eight and one.

And it was a really scary time for me
because I hadn't really been a parent

to my children for a while

because I was struggling
with addiction and mental health.

And so I had four children come home
and we were we were unhoused.

We were homeless. Like,
I didn't have anything. I,

I had been

couch surfing
before I got into this program. So,

you know, I had to navigate
trying to get my kids into school.

My kids were also coming home with pain,
they were coming home

with their own pain and suffering
from what they went through with,

with the lifestyle I was living.

And so, I was just
really didn't know how to parent.

And so there was parenting courses
I needed getting my kids in school.

I use I access Tools for School.

The Hot Lunch Programs at Family Center
was talking about like that.

You know, my

it was really difficult to try to navigate
having food on the table, the Food Bank.

Tools for School, Coats for Kids.

Like, there was so many beautiful programs
that stepped up and surrounded us

with all these supports that I needed,
and even getting a bus ticket,

even child care, so that I could get to
the program that I was supposed to attend.

And so, you know, Boyle Street

had the daycare there and our Bissell,
I think. Yes.

Bissell has. Yeah.

Boyle Street.
Yes. Had the daycare. That was free.

Because I couldn't afford daycare.

So I was able to put them in there
while I got better,

you know
while I access the supports that I needed.

And when you're in,
when you're struggling with mental health,

it's kind of like you have blinders on.

You don't really know

that there's all those supports out there
because you just think everybody's

against you. Yeah.

And you're, you know,
you don't think anybody cares.

Because I had a lot of, you know, a
lot of stigma that was put on me.

And so it made it really difficult
for me to access these services.

But I had some really good people
that kind of helped me,

navigate the resources in Edmonton.

And there was lots that I didn't know
about.

And, you know, and they helped me

get into parenting classes
and different things that I needed,

some counseling, family counseling,
you know, so there was there was quite

a quite a few services that I access
to kind of get back on my feet for sure.

And it's such, such an important topic
because when you're struggling,

having the last thing
you want to think about

is all those other services
that you need in order to get better.

Yeah.

You know,
how often do you see this in your work?

And, you know, is the United Way
like a place

that you let people know about
and be like, hey, these services are here.

Yeah, we can support you.

And there's other wraparound available?

A lot of people don't know that,
you know, I,

I noticed that
when people come into treatment,

they don't know that there's
things out there like E4C

that they have the Wellness Network,
you know, they don't know that,

Canadian Mental Health Association
has the Recovery College or drop

in counseling sessions.

You know, they
don't know that there's parenting classes

that they can access or Indigenous
programs through Bent Arrow or.

or, you know, there's so many things
that people don't realize are there.

And so recovery is complicated,
It really is.

People

it's very individual.

Like, I think that sometimes
we try to put it into a box and think,

you know, but it's not
every person needs something different.

And even as an Indigenous person,
some people don't feel comfortable

with Indigenous services
because of the trauma that they experience

through Residential Schools.

So I don't make assumptions
when I'm working with someone.

I ask a lot of questions
and really get to know them

and through conversation,
help them know what is out there for them

and some people, you know,
get a lot out of recovery meetings

and some people don't.

So letting them know
that different types of recovery

that they can do, like maybe
it's going swimming, you know, like that's

a part of recovery too, or going for walks
like so helping them know

that recovery can be very,
very different in helping them look at it

in a holistic way and know that, you know,
there's four parts to them.

We have four quadrants, So
mental, physical, emotional and spiritual

and helping them
navigate their Medicine Wheel

to help them understand

that all of those parts need to have
something in them to create balance.

And so supporting them to understand
what works for them in those areas of

their life is it's it's been great,
Because really it comes from them.

I'm the only one.

I always say, I'm just walking beside you.

This is your journey
and you tell me what you need.

I never tell anybody
what I think they need

because I had that happen to me
way too many times, where

everybody created care plans and things
that they told me that I needed.

And when somebody tells you
that you have to do something,

it's not the same
as you exploring it for yourself.

And so I needed the ability
to explore that for myself.

And I think things would have worked out
a little more different.

Instead of everybody telling me,
if you don't do this,

this is going to happen.

And so very consequence driven and,

and it made

me not want to do it
because it wasn't what I wanted.

It was what everybody else wanted.

And so I try to give people choice.

I think choice is important.

Your title of,

Indigenous Wellness Coordinator.

It's like connector right?

You're a connector to all these different,
all these different supports

that people, again, wouldn't
potentially know about.

And even for myself,

I don't know everything that's out there
because things change, Unfortunately.

Funding, you know, only lasts for so long.

So services change. Yeah.

So me as a support person for people,
I make sure to go

there and learn about the services
because if you hand somebody

a pamphlet and say, here, go here,

it's a lot different than saying, hey,
you know what?

I actually walked into Boyle Street
and this is the services that were there.

Jenny's the lady at the front desk here,
you know, and then they're like, yeah,

it helps take away
some of that anxiety for somebody.

If you support them,
you walk through that door

together instead of them having to
to do that by themselves.

That's intimidating.
It is very intimidating.

I know for me, I, I was I hadn't
lived in Edmonton for a long time.

I came from a small community,
so I was really intimidated by walking

through some of these doors
and trying to ask for help,

because it wasn't
set up the best there was.

There is a lot of silos that exist,
so navigating our health

care system was actually very
exhausting sometimes because,

you have to retraumatize yourself
sometimes

to get the supports that you need,
which isn't very person centered

and can be really difficult
when somebody wants to know

about your pain all the time
and not your successes.

And so I found that was really difficult
as everybody focused on,

how broken
I was instead of how strong I was.

And so, I try to switch that narrative
quite a bit in everything that I do.

And when people are like,
oh, you know, I'm, I'm such a failure.

I've been to treatment six times.

I'm like, man, that's amazing.

I'm like, look at you
come back like the for the sixth time,

it shows me that you don't give up easy
and that you're fighting for yourself.

You should be really proud of yourself.

And they're like,
oh, I never thought of it that way.

Because people tell them, you know,

setting up a healthy support
network is really difficult, too, because,

you know, the

people in our lives when we're
struggling, the, the constant tells us

how much we've hurt them
or how much we failed them.

And so, you know, you give up on yourself

when when people are giving up on you,
internalize,

you internalize those messages,
And they become your truth.

And so really helping people understand
what is a healthy support system,

I always say,
how do we create accountability partners?

And, I have a lot of accountability
partners

and I can tell you, when I was struggling,
I made sure I picked people in my life

are going to tell me what I wanted to hear
because it was survival.

Now I have people in my life
that I know are going to call me out

and, and actually,

you know, get me to kind of look at things
differently, which I really need,

because sometimes I can get stuck
in that place of everybody's against me.

Yeah.

And so when somebody helps me say, well,
maybe look at it this way or,

you know, or if I tell people,
if I'm talking to them,

can I share something with you
about my story?

I always ask permission
and it gives people their power back.

it okay if I share something with you?

And if they say
no, then I don't write. So,

yeah,
empowering people is is really important.

I think.

And you know, such an important part
for parents, adults, you know, access

these services and supports and, you know,
take that initiative and seek help.

But, you know, for for children, you know,
who are involved in this scenario,

the programs and services
available, and alongside, you know,

their parents getting some support,
how does that impact them?

How does it improve their lives?

I think it's really it

I was kind of thinking about this
when I was listening to the last people

that were just talking,
From the Family Centre.

It's not easy having to ask for help.

It's, it comes with some shame.

Yeah. It's not really easy to,

to feel like you know, you're low income.

So this is all that you have to do
these things.

It's not easy for children.

Kids notice these things.

You know, kids notice when you're having
to get a Hot Lunch program or,

you know, we're having to cook from
the Food Bank and all of those things.

That wasn't, my pride.

You know, pride.
It was really difficult for me.

But I'm thankful they were there.

But it's also very difficult
for kids to navigate.

When I couldn't go out

and buy them what they wanted
because I was on such a limited income.

So I think that that also comes with,

a lot of things for parents to navigate.

As, as a mom, When you have to access
these services as a single parent,

it's not always easy to do.

I'm so thankful they were there.

They they changed my life.

They made things so that I could be a mom,
So that I could show up for my kids.

But it was difficult
navigating, having to do those things,

because
it's intergenerational poverty, Like,

I remember as a kid going to school
and having to,

you know, get food from the Food Bank
to go to school, for my lunches.

And these kids coming to school
with really nice lunches.

And so you feel those things
you can't help but internalize

those things when,
when you're living in a place of poverty,

it's can be really difficult to navigate
having to do things like that all the time

and not having the money
to just do what you want to do.

Always depending on help,
it can be a little difficult

sometimes really thankful it's there,
but at the same time

navigating that with your kids
so they helping them understand,

why you have to access these services.

It's not always easy for children.

Yeah.

And I my next question, you know, with
how do parents have these conversations

with kids?

You know, it's important for them to know
that, you know, how can they approach it?

Because as much as, you know, as much

as there's an opportunity
to, to get support from the community,

how can parents tell their kids, yeah,
I have that relationship.

It wasn't easy at first.

I didn't

really,
didn't really know much about my finances.

Like, I just knew it, like, I didn't know
how to have those conversations

and actually Empower U.

Taking a Financial Literacy
class actually helped me to know

how to have conversations
with my kids about money,

because I wasn't taught
to have those conversations.

But when I took this Empower U class,

I realized how important it was
to pass that knowledge on to my children.

So they had financial knowledge
for when they grew up and became adults.

And so I actually sat down
with the table table

with them and said, you know,
mom's not capable of working now.

You know, I'm really focusing on,
you know, getting better and,

and I'm just, you know, this is
this is what our finances are

and sitting down with them
and helping them understand,

you know, how to how I had to budget.

Like, it was really important for me,
for my kids to eat out once a month,

Like for us to order pizza.

Yeah, And what I realized
with financial literacy,

which was really

beautiful to me and change things for me,
it was like we'd order pizza.

Well, I was a mother of four kids,
so you can imagine it was like over $100

for us to to order food and they said,
why don't you make pizza together?

And I was like, You know, like,
that's actually beautiful,

So then we were in the kitchen together
and they were learning to cook with me,

and it was way more fun
than ordering pizza, Because they got

they got cooking skills.

And I was able
we were able to sit as a family together

and do something together.

So that became actually way more fun
than ordering pizza.

So it was something where I learned
that, resilient.

Yeah. You know, you don't always have to,

have those specific things to make things
good,

You can make things good
by doing different things. And,

yeah, I think, like,
we've really grown as a family that way.

We, once a year, we do this outing on New
Year's Day, the coldest day of the year.

And, as a family,
we gather and we cook hot soup

and we make bannock, and,

we buy a bunch of candy, and,

we go out and stand
in front of Hope Mission,

and my grandchildren have been doing this
with me now for three years,

and they come and hand out
the candy and stuff and just the

the happiness that I see from the people
that we're serving to see children

is really beautiful, because I know
a lot of them miss their children.

I know what it was like being there
without my kids and trying to navigate

my way back to them was really difficult.

So you can see the smile on their faces
when children are handing them candy.

So I try to pass this knowledge
on to my family of how to take care

of your community. And so

I think because we were so taken care of,
that,

I want to pass that on to others and say,
you know, it gave me hope to do that

with my children
because intergenerational change

started to change,
Like because of the support systems

I had in place, it helped me
start to break some of those barriers

that I had experienced and so that's
what I'm trying to do as a mother today

is, is break some of those systems

that were put in place for me without me
wanting them to be put in place for me.

So and that's because of the community
surrounding us as a family

and showing me that, people do care and,

you know, and people
making their donations and stuff, like,

I it was so beautiful to me
to be able to go and to, to thank people

because they don't get that all the time.

They just, you know, make these donations.

They don't really know
where their dollars go.

So, I used to go around with my son
carrying him and saying,

you know, thanking people.

We were a huge part of United Way campaign
and got to be on posters.

And, you know, to me
it was just beautiful to show people,

you know, how when you help somebody,
you can create change for people.

Yeah.

It's incredible to, to hear
how you know how resilient kids are

and how they can impact,
you know, your journey and support.

Yeah. Yeah.

You know, like, they were so strong, like,
I get emotional about my kids because,

they've been through a lot with me.

And, you know,
I had to watch my own children struggle

with substance misuse and mental health,
and trying to navigate

that with
my children was really difficult.

You know,
I had a daughter who was self-harming.

You know, I have, you know,
I had a son who's an alcoholic.

You know, I have
my other daughter was overeating.

And so there was, like, all of this mental
health happening for them and for me.

And so trying to navigate that with them
while I was trying to heal

my mental health is really hard,
Because you, as a mom, I caused that pain,

That's what I seen for myself is like,
I caused that pain for my children.

And everybody always tries to say, oh,
just forgive yourself.

It's okay.

And I'm like, those words are easy to say,
but when you're

watching the outcome
from things that happen,

I had to work really hard
to get to that place,

to self-forgiveness, to help, to help,
you know, help my kids. And,

and the, the, the

changes that they've made in their life
today is just, just so beautiful.

But that's because of the supports
that we had along the way.

Like my kids all took financial literacy
to through Empower U.

So, you know,
I got bank accounts for my grandkids

and teaching them how to save money. And,

there's just so many beautiful things.

Like, my kids all have their education

and they're all working
in the helping field, right?

So that says a lot to me,

You know, my daughter is just recently
celebrated nine months clean and,

you know, and it's just so beautiful
to be able to to see have my child back.

And she says a lot of the time, like,
it's for me never giving up on her.

And so I'm glad
that I never gave up on myself

and started to fight for myself
because it changed my children's lives.

yeah, you know, such positive experiences,
you know, amidst all the challenges.

Yeah.

You know, through your life
and your journey and these,

you know, these experiences
you're sharing with us,

how do you, bring that to your
role at the Henwood Center?

I, I share the stories,

as somebody who
I was a peer support worker for,

nine years with Alberta Health Services
before,

before I became an Indigenous
Wellness Coordinator.

And I really learned
how my story creates hope.

And so I started sharing my story
and it wasn't easy at first.

when you look at your past, it's
not difficult to go into your it's sorry.

It's difficult to go into your past.

And I had a lot of anger.

But when people help me understand
and navigate that past in our culture,

we say that, we are
we were spirits who chose to come

and have a human experience,
and we chose our life before we got here.

And I was like,
there's no way I chose this life right?

and I actually think about it and I'm
like, yeah, I did choose this life.

I chose it for a reason,

I chose to go through these hardships
in these difficult times

so that I could show up for people
in a good way.

So I actually really, like appreciate
what I went through, as in my life.

And I thank my mom
and I think I'm thankful I chose her

She gave me some things that helped me
be who I am today.

And so once I was able to change that
thinking and see my past

as a gift instead of a mistake

and share that

with others, it helps them kind of
look at their past a little different.

And when I'm sharing with them,
I always focus on,

the change that I made to help them know
it's possible because we get so stuck.

And I was like,
hey, I've been there, you know?

I know what it's like
to be stuck in that place.

It's really difficult
when you're feeling so hopeless.

And how can I help you navigate that,
you know, so just really listening,

you know, and showing up
and sharing your experience and laughter,

you know, and showing love and kindness
and empathy.

It makes such a difference
in people's lives.

If you show up in a good way

and you know, how do these program,
you know, it's all powerful in themselves.

How does that really support,

you know, the all the people
that are coming in and need the support.

Can you speak to a little bit about how
powerful they are these programs and how.

Yeah totally.

Excuse me but yeah it's okay.

There they are.

It's when I watch people go

through the same programs
that I've gone through by myself,

and I see the change in them.

It's it's so beautiful to see
people don't know, like, we need a leg up,

you know, like we need we need somebody
to kind of say, hey, I'm here for you.

And, it's
it really makes incredible change.

Like, I've seen people like for me
because somebody gave me a chance.

I was able to educate myself and,
you know, continue to go on and get a job,

you know, and know that I could have a job
even if I had a criminal record.

It was scary for me

when I had a criminal record, I'm like,
no one's going to hire me.

I have a criminal record.

And people actually helped me see that.

That didn't have to be my barrier.

And that, like, I also worked,
I work across

the province
also for, Restorative Justice.

So I do a lot of support with people
coming out of the justice system

and helping them navigate those systems
the way I did

when I went through that program.

And the hope that I

start to see becomes instilled in them
because,

because of being able
to get the counseling that's available

to them or financial literacy or,
you know, those,

helping them navigate those systems

and understand
how to be advocates for themselves.

When you learn that you have a voice

and that's that's a really cool thing
when you're like,

hey, I can actually say, hey,
I don't like that.

You know, that doesn't work for me.

You're no, you're allowed to say that
or even changing people.

I see people
start to change their language.

I call it drinking the Kool-Aid,
drinking the the Kool-Aid of recovery.

I'm like, I'm always like,
oh, you drank the Kool-Aid.

Hey, because they're how

they speak about themselves
and how they speak about others shifts.

And I see people actually want to
volunteer and give back in the community.

And that's what we did in, Drug Treatment
Court as people actually had to,

do volunteer services.

And when they start volunteering,

they do volunteer at the Food Bank or the,

the different things
that are happening around Edmonton.

And I help them, they begin to understand
how that program actually saves lives.

And when they start volunteering
and giving back.

So it makes you want to be part of change.

And so I've seen people do that,
that leave treatment.

They're like, how can we come back
and help like this program change my life?

How can we help others?

So it's that pay it forward.

I think once you get through
that place of darkness

and you have people surround you
with light and love,

you actually want to continue
to give that back to others.

So I see that in people.

People being able to show up
not only for themselves

and their families, but their community.

And so that's beautiful to see.

You know,
one thing that really stuck with me

that you've been talking about
is taking your power back.

You know, very specific,

you know, client, program, user or story
that really sticks out to you

and that really comes back
to taking your power, I think, Empower U.

Yeah.

When I, when I took Empower U, my, my,

my credit score was like 360,
and I, nobody taught me

how important a credit score is or
how important it is to not deposit,

checks
that are not good into a bank account.

Right. Like those don't skills
aren't taught to me.

And when I took Empower
U, I learned about needs and wants.

I learned about budgeting.

You know,
I actually learned about more community

resources because it was more
than financial literacy.

We actually were a bunch of women
getting together and sharing our knowledge

with each other. So,

it really taught me I wasn't alone.

And the, the financial coaches taught me

that I could rebuild my credit score
and how to talk to creditors.

And and I think the most beautiful story
I did out of that is,

I worked as a Financial Facilitator

for 13 years, and,

and it's really inspiring
for people to hear that.

I had a credit score of 360,
and now I have a credit score of 720.

And but the biggest thing for me
and all of that was being able

to walk into the bank when I needed to get
a line of credit and the like.

And you know, the stigma was there.
I felt it in there.

Like, we're going to have to pull
your credit score.

And I'm like,
oh yeah, it's going to be good.

You can pull it back, you know?

So having that confidence,
I began to feel like

I had power over my money
instead of money having power over me

because it had power over me
for a long time, living in poverty.

And now,

I know how to have a savings account,

and I know how to budget,
and I know how to do those things.

So I think that's something
that really helped me change a lot.

I was talking a little bit
about how difficult it was, though,

when I started to be able to go back

into the workforce
and losing some of these subsidies,

was really difficult
because I worked into it.

I went into a different tax bracket. Yeah.

And so once you're in that different
tax bracket,

you don't qualify for some of
these subsidies that are available.

So actually
that was really fearful for me.

I was actually really scared
about not having a job

because I was like, I'm going to lose
all these subsidies that have been

helping me for a really long time.

So I actually ended
up having to get two jobs,

to be able to still continue
to have my kids and sports and stuff.

So I think that some of that stuff
was a little bit difficult to navigate,

but I was able to,
you know, learn how to do without it.

But that fear of losing those subsidies
when I had them for so long

was really difficult change for me.

Or going off of Alberta Works,

I didn't realize how much Alberta Works
was doing for me

with, with my medical coverage.

And so having to have to pay
for medical now and, you know, and change

into that system,
these systems are all difficult

to navigate
when you're moving through them.

And so,

I always kind of help people understand
that, like, you know, if you get

a job, here's something that could happen,
And to be aware of that.

And so people are thankful for that.

They think that knowledge is power,
To have those things explained to you

helps you understand
when you're losing one system.

When all the subsidies were gone
and everything was gone

and I was just working,
it was very difficult, different for me.

I had to learn
how to budget in a different way.

So, I try to pass that knowledge on to

others that are doing
the same thing, just shows the the need

for the support and the programs
through the entire process.

Right? Yeah.

And those transitions
that are really hard. Yeah.

Like I even low income housing,

I didn't qualify for low

income housing anymore
and I had to go into market rate housing.

That was really difficult,
Like trying to pay

full rent now from subsidized rent and,

like I said, like I, I had to change
my budget, and change things around.

And a lot of supports
kind of started to be like, sorry,

we can't help you anymore.

I don't fit And so, even watching,
my child

who just turned 18 a couple of days ago,
trying to navigate,

you know, the system for his mental health
was really difficult for me, Because I

there was just

the waiting lists were so long to try
to get the supports that he needed and

to see him kind of feel hopeless, From
the things not being there that he needed.

So I think, yeah, like that transition
part is also another piece that we need

to be more aware of is how difficult
that transition can be for people.

You I'm probably such a such
a dynamic experience for most people,

from the journey of recovery
all the way to independence

and the barriers that he faces. Right.

Even trying to have a job,
you know, like showing up every day

when I hadn't done that for a really long
time.

You know,
I was stuck in a very, unhealthy world

and, you know, domestic violence and,
you know, even trying

to navigate healthy relationships,
trying to make new friends,

trying to make friends was really hard,
Trying to leave that those people behind.

I always say sometimes like it's like a
a witness protection program.

Like you have to change so many things
when you're trying to navigate recovery.

Like I said, it's really complex
and we have to give people

the space that they need
when they're trying to face all of these,

these changes for themselves.

It sounds like it's
almost every aspect of your life.

So like you said earlier, you can expect
that change to happen quickly now. And.

Well, yeah, I navigated mental health
and mental health and with addiction.

That's
how I chose to take care of my mental

health
is I numbed that pain with substances. So

it's not easy to walk away from that.

It actually gives you something.

You and I remind people of that.

We don't stay because it's fun,
We stay because it's actually taking away

a lot of our pain.

And while I took away a lot of my pain,
it helped me stay numb.

And I just it helped me stay in that,

that state where I didn't
actually have to look at my pain.

Right.

And so when I took that away
and I actually had to feel my emotions

and navigate,

being sober
and start to feel all that guilt and shame

and all of those things that I
how I had harmed the community with,

being a dealing drugs and, you know,
and committing crimes and stuff like that.

That was really a lot of shame
that comes with that. And,

I had to learn how

to feel those feelings and even,
I had a concurrent disorder. So,

actually being able to know
that I actually needed to take medication

for the rest of my life,
I didn't like that.

That I had to take medication
for the rest of my life.

So I'm thankful that I had the right
supports in place that helped me

understand that I have a trauma brain,
that my brain thinks differently,

and I need support
and I need to take medication.

Yeah, that's not an easy thing

to know that you have to take medication
for the rest of your life.

And so,

but once I accepted that, it
I seen that help.

Right.

Like, I, you know,
I have to have those things in place.

So navigating health
care systems, And doctors and

trying to be on

the right medication
and stuff is really complex, too.

You know, there's probably so many people
who have similar experiences.

Yeah. As you've gone through. Yeah.

You know, for someone who's struggling,
dealing with mental health and addiction

now, what advice do you have for them
on their recovery journey?

And how can United Way be a resource?

Oh, United Way as a resource.

So many different things of,

helping them know
they're not alone, helping people

feel safe to say I'm not doing well.

Yeah, It's really scary to say that
because there's a lot of stigma

around mental health.

And so,

helping them know that it's
okay to say I'm not okay. And,

knowing that there's support systems
out there for them,

And being able to put voice
to those things and talk about it,

I know for me as an Indigenous person,
we were taught to be silent.

We don't talk about things.

And I think a lot of that happens

in a lot of cultures is
you don't talk about your mental health.

There's a lot of stigma
and shame around that.

So teaching them that it's safe
to have these conversations.

I like I said, my mom,
I never told anybody

what was happening at home
because I didn't want to lose my mom.

Like I said, I loved her,
I didn't see what she was doing is wrong.

So helping people understand
that it's okay to say I'm not safe,

So putting voice to things, I
if you know, we can support people to do

that in a good way, is going to create
a lot of change for people

and not take away the stigma, the stigma.

So bad out there, especially when we try

to access the health care services
that are out there. And,

the way
we're talked to, you know, the way.

So even
I think people that are in these places,

I always think education is important,
having people with lived experience

and come out and share that their journeys
and share with people what it was

like when you,

certain language that you use.

Like if you say things
to people in a certain way,

it can actually stop them
from accessing help.

So even the people that are working
in these support systems,

learning, teaching them how to be
cultural, have cultural humility.

I think it doesn't
we're not the ones that always

have to continue to educate ourselves.

I think there's people out there that need
to learn how to educate themselves

as well in these places
so that people can show up in a good way.

So I think it's it's not just the people
that are struggling that have to learn.

It's the support systems in place
that have to learn with us.

Totally. Yeah.

Be able to create those safe spaces
with the safe people

so that people feel like
they can share, like you said.

Yeah.

And then speak it out loud
that it might not be okay.

Creating those safe spaces
is like really important for people.

Yeah.

And you know you did talk about

some of the programs
that you've used from the United Way.

You know what programs you know today.

Do you think people should be accessing

from the United Way who are having mental
health and addiction challenges?

Well I know that CMHA has, you know, the
the counseling services there,

and they offer the sessions there
that are really good.

Even today I was looking at some of the
like the Boys and Girls Club for kids.

Like my my son had a Big

and he changed his life, Because he didn't
have a male role model in his life.

So, even having that,

letting

children know that there's places for them
to not just adults.

And I was looking at one of them,
you were talking about,

All in for Youth, All in for Youth
sounds like an incredible program.

And Empower U,

you know, like, like letting people know
that there's there's places.

And not every school has these
has these things that I'm talking about

which we were talking,
which is unfortunate.

It's,

only in certain areas.

And so I guess just making more awareness

out there that these programs
are available 211 you know, being able

to phone a place that helps you know
where these services are available. So,

yeah, I think I,
I don't think that we promoted enough.

The other thing that I really notice is,

a lot of these places, people don't feel

like they can access them because they're,

they're not low income or they don't think
that they have lived experience.

Yeah, everybody has lived experience.

We all have lived experience.

But I think that the way that we've set
things up is

you have to have mental health

or this or this or this,
this in order to access these services.

So I think that better education around
that.

This is for everybody.

It doesn't have to be one specific
population that accesses these services.

So educating people
to understand that this this is accessible

for everyone and making it more accessible
for everyone, not just

people who are low income.

And like I said, like professionals
have mental health and some,

you know, substance use issues too,
So helping them know that

that spaces for them too,
I think, we could promote it,

promote it in a better way
that it is for everyone.

Yeah.
All all struggle is valid. Yeah. Yeah.

Exactly. Right. No matter what it is.
yeah yeah.

And you know, there's like we were talking

there's so many different ways
that people approach helping someone.

And you know, for our viewers
and for everybody watching,

there's one thing
that they can do to support

someone who's going through mental health
challenges or addiction.

You know, what can that be?

One big thing.

And that's a that's

to sum up, you know, sum it up.

Yeah.

I think just,

self-education is really important
to help understand your community,

educating yourself on what's going on in
your community is going to be

really important
for you to know how to show up for people.

Because if you don't understand
and you're stuck in your values

and your belief systems
that were given to you

from a child, that you know,
some of them can be harmful.

So challenging yourself
to look at your own stigma

and your own cultural biases,

I think is a really it's really going
to support people, support

others
to show up for people, in a good way.

And taking that education,
educating yourself, like I said,

educating yourself on your community
and volunteering, you know,

I think volunteering is a really good way
to get to know your community.

So I think those are some of the things
that are really important to do

is that's what I had to do,
Because I had my own stigma

because of what I went
through with poverty.

I was I didn't trust people.

And when I started to let down
some of those walls,

I seen that there was actually
some really caring people out there. So,

that are showing up in a good way.

So I think that

that's that's something that helped me
is to work through some of those things.

So I think that's important for people
to do, to know how to show up for others,

you know. Yeah.

Well, thank you for being a part
of that education.

Yeah.

Through something like the podcast
that people can listen to and,

and learn about, not just services
and what United Way does or what

or just learn about

what's going on in the community
and how it impacts people directly.

Well,
then it does. Like it's it's changes.

It doesn't just change the person
that you're helping

because it changes the family. In,

mental health and substance
misuse is a family disease,

So when I was unwell, it was affecting
not only my community but my family.

So it's generational.

So when you change that one person's
life, just know that you're changing it

for their children
and changing it for the community.

So you just know that it's bigger
than the person in front of you.

And I think that's something to remember.

I think that's great. Yeah.

Well Pamela,
thank you so much for being here today

and sharing your incredibly
inspiring story.

Like you had mentioned.

This these
kind of stories do bring hope to people.

So thank you so much for your for sharing.

Yeah.

And thank you as well to the team
at United Way of Alberta Capital Region,

for helping make this conversation happen.

Doing local good starts with you

to find out how you can help
build thriving, resilient communities.

You can head to my myuniteway.ca/genNEXT,
or check out the links in the show notes.

Together, we can all make sure
that no one is left behind.

And if you like this episode, always
make sure to like and share and subscribe.

And on behalf of myself,
Natalie and Rahma,

and the whole GenNEXT Cabinet, thank you
all for listening to Do Local Good.